20 mins read

Allianz Transformation Focus: Risk Prioritisation and Same Day Turnaround Time

by Juan de Castro, COO, Cytora

This a shortened version of Making Risk Flow podcast, episode: “Allianz Transformation Focus: Risk Prioritisation and Same Day Turnaround Time”. In this episode, Juan is joined by Jason Howes, Director of Business Transformation at Allianz Commercial UK, and Jonathon Gray, Transformation Business Owner at Allianz Insurance. With the guests coming from the same company, the trio discuss the vision and structure of the transformation initiatives taking place at Allianz, how risk prioritisation can help companies win business, and why digital risk flows might be the future of insurance.

Listen to the full episode here

Juan de Castro: Welcome to a new episode of Making Risk Flow. Today I’m joined by two incredible change-makers from Allianz commercial lines. Jason Howes, who’s the UK Business Lead, and Jonathon Gray, the Transformation Business Owner. So let’s first start with a brief introduction from your side.

Jason Howes: Yeah, sure. Hi Juan, good to see you as always. Jason Howes, I’m the Director of Business Transformation. For the last two and a half years I’ve been overseeing the UK commercial program of transformation in the UK for Allianz. It’s obviously got an extremely tight coupling to the global strategy, which we’ll, I’m sure touch on as we get into the questions. So obviously I have a huge role to play in terms of joining up the global and the local strategy together. So that’s my background.

Jonathon Gray: Hi Juan. Firstly, just thanks for inviting Jason and me along to the podcast today. So I’m Jonathon Gray and I’m a business owner in our transformation division, but my background is actually all in underwriting. I’ve probably spent the last ten years or so on the fleet side of our business working from assistant underwriter up to managing one of our local accounts. And I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen it from both sides, both from the front end, from underwriting trading negotiations with our local brokers and clients through to head office management accounts and steering the portfolio. But I made the decision a couple of years ago to jump into transformation and join Jason, looking at the processes we’re likely to look at in the future as underwriting, some of the tools which have led me on to the role I’ve got now. So over the last twelve months, I’ve actually been leading the implementation of Cytora across our mid-corporate product lines here in the UK. So whilst transformation is completely new for me I’d like to think my background in underwriting puts me in a decent place to try and bring a positive change into transformation.

Juan de Castro: So both of you are very focused on transformation. Perhaps we start with what the end state looks like? What’s the vision of the transformation initiative? Let’s start with you Jason. How will the Alliance UK commercial lines look after this transformation?

Jason Howes: The overall ambition is one that’s been stated many times, particularly by Simon McGinn, our commercial CEO, which is to be the number one UK commercial insurer. And that basically means to be the best by customers and brokers. Just to be absolutely crystal clear, there’s obviously a number of lenses that falls into in terms of how we achieve that. What I would say is that transformation is an absolutely critical part of it. So transformation for the UK commercial business had been looked at for many years and of course, the business has been incrementally developing over that time as the market moves around us. I think what we’ve all seen post the pandemic is a huge digital shift at massive speed across many industries, right? If you forget insurance for just the second one we’ve seen, the industries really have to change direction, digitalise at a pace that probably has never been seen before and insurance is no different to that. And Allianz is obviously a huge component of the insurance industry that needs to keep pace with those developments. And so transformation is a crucial part of the strategy and the target state where we need to get to in our commercial business to be number one. I referenced earlier in the introductions, the background is that if you look at the Allianz SE board strategy around the global business, you will notice that Oliver, the global CEO, talks a lot about the Allianz Customer Model, so ACM and then how that translates into our IT global systems. And the UK is right at the forefront of what is happening with that global technology push. Obviously being such a mature insurance market, it makes sense to really stay close to the group and that’s exactly where we’re going. And I think this will be a real key enabler to help us achieve our ambition of being number one.

Juan de Castro: So you said number one in commercial insurance, both from a broker and a customer perspective, what does it mean to be number one from a broker perspective?

Jason Howes: So service has got to be there as the key prime driver, right along with efficiency and you can put the customer and broker lenses around both of these. So, I mean, brokers quite rightly, demand service to improve and digitise as they digitalise their business and modernise their business. And we not only have to keep pace with that but also innovate and improve our offering to the market. Because if we do want to be number one, then we’re up against some really stiff competition. Our competitors are not standing still. We know that there’s lots of investment in the market in InsurTechs and that continues at a pace. Particularly London is a huge hub, as we have seen in the news recently InsurTech is receiving a lot of investment. So broker service is a huge, huge focus for us and how do we improve that? Utilising, of course, our branch network, which is one of our unique selling points that has been with us for many years, that has to develop and has been keeping pace, but we need to continue to evolve. I think the efficiency point is an interesting one because I think if we’re inefficient, then we therefore can’t provide our brokers with the service that they want. And so our strive for efficiency does come from both making sure that we’ve got a handle on our expense base because again, that makes us more competitive in the market and that’s beneficial for everyone. But also we need to be efficient for our brokers and our customers. I think long gone are the days when where it was acceptable to sit on an email or fax for those that remember faxes that could go on for days and sometimes weeks on end. Now people expect quite rightly a much more instantaneous answer and we have to provide the ability for that to happen. And that’s the efficiency drive. Right? So we’ve seen things like offshoring was very front of mind over the last few years, but the digitalisation which we’ve seen, as I’ve mentioned already elsewhere, is now at the forefront of all our thinking as far as the industry and Allianz is concerned.

Juan de Castro: That’s exactly the question for you, Jonathon, Jason has described some of the goals and priorities of the transformation initiative. Can you give us an overview of how you structure that?

Jonathon Gray: Yeah, of course, Jason touched upon transformation and I think it’s fair to say the insurance industry previously probably hasn’t been the quickest to shift, especially when you look at some of the other sectors out there. And obviously, from a transformation point of view, we’ve seen the change happen in personal lines and it won’t be too long before commercial catches up and most insurers will have been through their transformation programs. I suppose at Allianz it’s no different. As Jason talked about, we predominantly trade with our brokers. So underwriters are spending a lot of time linking in with our brokers, extracting information from presentations, going off and finding as much data as possible to help them make a decision. Essentially what it means is there’s a lot of back and forth between ourselves and underwriters before you can make a final decision. You throw that on top of all of the legacy systems that we’ve accrued over the decades and actually you can see how the speed to market potentially isn’t as quick as it could be. And I think to Jason’s vision what it boils down to is we want underwriters spending as much time adding value in the right places as possible. So if I look at the initiative that I’m currently involved in, essentially what we’re trying to do is deliver triage and data-enriched risk submissions to our underwriters as quickly as possible in a decision-ready format. So underwriters can essentially build upon their technical excellence to really drive through that speed to market whilst also adding to the data insight. And I suppose if I look at it, there’ll be a number of tools and processes we’ll use, yourselves included. But what it boils down to is taking that unstructured data from broker submissions, taking some of the manual effort away, and then going off and enriching that and bringing a more informed view of the client and our brokers. It’s being brought to the forefront of an underwriter’s mind so that they can essentially spend more time on the right cases that are going to add value to our bottom line.

Juan de Castro: That makes sense. So you’ve touched on a couple of things there. One is the number of manual activities underwriters have to do and the implication on a broker service. Can you give us an overview of what it used to look like before you started digitising? That period that happened between you receiving a submission and a quote went out to a broker and perhaps give us an overview of what’s going to look like in the future?

Jonathon Gray: Yeah, of course. It’s probably quite difficult to touch on every role and test that underwriter takes on, but an email would land in an inbox and an underwriter would spend time just doing an initial sense check around “Is that something that I want to write.”. Spending time copying and pasting data from one place to the other, getting it into our right systems, whether that be a policy admin system, a workflow, a rating tool, you name it, a number of different systems to help them make a decision. So actually a long time is spent on that manual effort. So in the future world, a risk would flow into our business, all that data is already captured for an underwriter. It’s then triaged based on maybe product, maybe the right underwriting department, maybe the right location before being prioritised. Then an underwriter can really focus on driving a change through the relationship with brokers rather than spending time on manual activities, getting data from one place to the other. If we can do that automatically, then it can only be a good thing for our customers and our brokers.

Juan de Castro: Jason, do you want to say something?

Jason Howes: Well, I was just going to add to what John was saying, which is that the key point here is to get our people in front of our brokers more of the time. So actually they’re not sat in front of a computer screen with nowhere to go because they’ve got so much administration to look at and to get through. That’s not value add for the broker, it’s not value add for us, and it’s not value add for the customer. So this is all about really focusing people’s time. It goes back to the efficiency point I said earlier, efficiency can mean so many different things. But actually, our big focus is to get our people in front of all of our broker partners in a more effective way more of the time because that’s what we believe they want and what they’re telling us they want. So when we talk about modernising and we talk about digitalising, this is to really enable that to happen.

Juan de Castro: Exactly. How do you remove all those manual activities from underwriters then? If the speed of service is a consideration, then is the vision you want to get those decisions ready risks to your underwriters within a certain amount of time, so that the first thing you can do is talk to the broker about different cases. Is that how you’re thinking about it?

Jonathon Gray: Yeah, essentially it is. And I think if I look at the target state of an underwriter, I think the data that will be provided to us in the future actually allows us to get to know our clients better. I’m not saying we don’t know our clients now, but if you think about it, an underwriter deals with hundreds of risk submissions and all of that data and the view they’ve got of the client is essentially presented to us by the broker. So they’re led by the information that our brokers submit. I’m not saying that in the future we’ll have more data on our clients and our brokers today. I think we’d probably get shot at suggesting that by our brokers. But actually what it does is it allows us to really understand the client’s needs and wants and allows us to understand their exposures and allows us to talk to brokers on a level that we know their clients and helps make a decision much, much quicker. And I think if I look at it from an underwriting side of things, you need to have a certain mindset as an underwriter to adapt to that new data coming in and also adapt to that pace of change. Is it unrealistic to think that same day underwriting is an expectation? I don’t think so. The changing demands of our clients, the changing demands of our brokers, just in a modern world, you see in everyday life, don’t you, with your bank, any interaction with Amazon or whoever it may be, everything’s instantaneous. And I can’t see why that will be any different in the insurance industry. So I think from an underwriting point of view, you need that mindset, you need that skill base. I think the other thing, is that just because I found it interesting based on an example a couple of weeks ago, you need that trust in the data that’s being presented to you because we rolled out a new system with some new data. First thing the underwriter said to us is, where does this data come from? Who’s validated it? Is it relevant for my client? And actually, there’s a level of scepticism there with any new system. And I think a good underwriter would go out and spend a lot of time in today’s world finding out as much information as possible about a client for all the different sources. But if you give the same risk to five different underwriters, you may well get five slightly different answers. So if we can move to a world of a data driven workflow which obviously speeds up our speed to market, you also drive through a level of consistency from a risk selection point of view. So certainly when you look at things on a portfolio basis, that’s surely a good thing. So underwriters need to adapt to the pace, they need to handle new data insights, but it will really drive through value add for our customers and clients and allow our underwriters to spend time where they are most needed.

Juan de Castro: So you talked about same-day underwriting, right? So if you think about the submission coming in from a broker, let’s imagine it arrives at 8:00 a.m. You want to send out the quote out by 6:00 p.m. How do you present the case with all the information in front of the underwriter within the first 30, 60 minutes and then the rest of the day is to potentially have that engagement with the broker, analyse the information the underwriter has received, et cetera. Is that what you’re thinking?

Jonathon Gray: To a certain extent, yeah. I think it’s difficult and you’ve got to be careful around just throwing loads of risks at an underwriter within 30 minutes of it coming, underwriters just won’t be able to cope. And I think it’s key that you prioritise and help and underwrite as much as possible. So one thing we focus on here is making sure that we do an element of prioritisation so when it lands in an underwriter workflow, they’ve got a good sense around what’s a good risk, is it a trade we like, is it a broker we like? We do well with what kind of locations it’s based in. So I think it would be very unfair of us just to throw hundreds of cases at our underwriters very quickly. You’ve got to give them the tools and the ability to take those prioritised risks, further add their knowledge, and then be able to trade on the front foot, use their experience really to make sure that the business is brought home.

Jason Howes: If I could add some information on this is that if you think back five years, ten years, the data that was available even on us as individuals and personal individuals was nowhere near as sophisticated as that available today. Right? So again, take it away from insurance, you log into your PC at home and you go on to Amazon and you get a personal shopping experience. The same on Netflix. Your Netflix account is personalised to you. And the reality is that data is driving that thought process, right? So this is where the insurance industry has really got to move and it has in personal lines, as Jon said earlier, but commercial lines has to, starting with the SME world, which we’ve seen more recently as that digitalised even further. But people expect that you will have access to a certain level of data, and it’s there. This is not new data. It’s about how you take that data, structure it, and do something with it that’s both efficient and helpful to the customer and broker. A good example of this, to bring this to life, is I ran the Midlands and Southwest region for a number of years for Allianz. And if I could have written down every day, somebody said to me, Jason, you ask too many questions which are available to you on the Internet, on Google in minutes. Why do you come back with so many questions? And this is something you need to address. And so our partnership with Cytora is very much built on this approach, which is the enablement to structure data, to get access to data, to pull data from different sources much more quickly than we do today, which is really exciting. It’s a great development for the insurance industry when we know it’s happening elsewhere. And if you don’t embrace this change and what’s coming, then simply you get left behind. It’s not a choice if that makes sense. And that’s one of the reasons. Again, we’ve got a new Chief Data Officer Chris Varley, who many people will know. And the investment in this area and this space has to be a critical part of any transformation program for any business, really, in the world we live in today.

Juan de Castro: Yes, definitely. And if I bring together both of your points, I think actually they are very related to each other. Jonathan, you were talking about one of the ultimate objectives, being able to prioritise and help the underwriter select which one is the most attractive risk the underwriter should be working on, which we call workflow optimisation. And I think where data comes into play – you can only do that and identify which is a higher priority if you can analyse the risk in its totality. To do that, as you said, Jason, you cannot just rely on the data the broker has provided. Often you need to go to a number of different sources to be able to pull that information from elsewhere. So almost the data is an enabler to start optimising the workflow. Because often when we talk about digitisation, it feels generic, it feels only about efficiency. And I think this is where really the two things get combined, which is pulling data about the risk. Often part of that data is external data, part of it is extracted data from the submissions then enables you to optimise your frontline operating model.

Jason Howes: Yeah. And you touch on, again, a really interesting area, which is OCR technology, extraction of data from documents. I mean, again, if you look at the advancements in the technology that’s occurred both globally and here in the UK over recent years that continues to move at a really significant pace. And again, you put on a very positive mindset around this that helps people to actually take away the manual exercise of sitting and trawling through sometimes tens of pages of documents. Which is what used to happen a few years ago. You don’t need to do that anymore. Because this technology helps underwriters and other areas of our business, not just the underwriters. It can help inform pricing, it can help inform the data structure but also our head office teams as well. Many head office functions within Allianz really are enriching their data all the time now. It’s great to see that technology and the basis of which you can do things moving so quickly. That’s why we’re investing in things like Cytora and the partnership with you guys to make this happen.

Juan de Castro: Definitely between quite mind-blowing how extraction technology has evolved in the last three to four years and again linking this back to the broker service because historically you guys often did this through an offshore team somewhere. So then it becomes more an extraction and efficiency play and unless you can automatically extract, you cannot deliver on the service turnaround that you want for your brokers, right? Because you want that extraction to happen within minutes so that your underwriters can see the case within half an hour or an hour of receiving the submission. And I think that is when the extraction becomes less of an efficiency play and more of another enabler to have an optimised model that delivers the desired quote turnaround. I would love to hear both of your perspectives you touched on it earlier – Jonathan – about the scepticism of underwriters and whether this type of transformation is as much a technical one, as a change management behavioural one. So what type of measures are you taking to ensure underwriting adoption?

Jonathon Gray: Yeah, it’s probably an obvious point, but engagement is just continuous. But I’ll probably focus more around on the implementation side just because it’s where I have spent most of my time recently. And I think if you take it back to the current work state of underwriters dealing with legacy systems, in some instances green screens that haven’t been updated for some time. So actually when you start off by trying to sell a vision, what’s in it for an underwriter? How it’s going to change their world? Actually, to a certain extent, it’s quite an easy sell. That said, how many times have we sat there? A new tool is coming along or a new process and it feels like we’ve been here before and there is that level of scepticism. So one thing we did, and if I reflect back, I think it’s something we did probably quite well was have underwriters engaged very early on in the process. Have them involved in designing and building out of all the requirements, not just any underwriter, one got the knowledge, but also got a decent standing in their market and their office. Because what that actually means is, whilst they’ll keep their colleagues updated on all the progress they’re doing and what they’re working on, which naturally just creates a little bit of a buzz and a bit of excitement, but it also means that the office is almost rooting for them already. So by the time we come along as a project team to roll it out, do the training further an element of that scepticism has gone away and you can start focusing really on the feedback and trying to drive through how we’re going to change. And I think that’s something that I think we did do very well. It has led to a little bit of momentum and I think the other key thing is making sure you have an effective feedback loop. We were on-site in most of our offices and regions on a weekly basis, holding virtual town halls, conferences, you name it, but it’s having that feedback loop that the underwriters feel that they’re heard and they’re being listened to.

Juan de Castro: I think that was perfect. Jonathan, you talked about engagement and the feedback loop with the underwriters. Can you tell some stories of what has been the feedback from the frontline?

Jonathon Gray: Yeah, of course. I think I’d summarise it has been a positive change. If I go back to that target, that current state and underwriter goes through, if I sit here and reflect I haven’t identified, the underwriters come to me, maybe they just haven’t, but I’ve had no underwriters come to me and say “what on earth are you doing? Why have you implemented this change? This is making my life a lot worse” which is great. One example really stands out to my mind, and it’s probably just because it happened in the first week or so I think of when we went live and an underwriter saw a prioritised risk in their workflow queue. Got a pretty high score, opened it up, looked at the data like what they saw, put the pricing on it, and I think they put a price out to market in less than 24 hours. And 24 hours later, that risk was on cover. So from it landing in an underwriter’s inbox through to an underwriter, looking at it, assessing it, putting a price on it, discussing it with the broker, the broker going off and discussing it with the client was less than 48 hours. And we spoke to the broker afterwards and the broker said that had we not been reactive, would not have picked up this risk, we weren’t front of mind for it. And the underwriter, whether he should or not, admitted to us afterwards as well he’d never have looked at it because it wasn’t a client name he recognised it wasn’t a broker we did a lot of work with previously. So he probably wouldn’t have looked at that. And it just goes to show that actually, if you can digitise the workflow, get information quickly and help with that prioritisation, it can lead to a positive change. And certainly, we have seen other examples of that come through, but that’s the one that really sticks out just purely because it happened within a couple of days of us going live and perfect timing in terms of generating that momentum and that buzz, because obviously, other underwriters, we’ve been on-site, obviously, the week before, so everyone was aware of what was happening. It generated that buzz and excitement amongst the rest of the region. That positive news story travelled around the rest of our business, especially as we start to train and roll out into other areas. So it just helped the communications and overall led to what I’d say was a relatively smooth implementation process.

Juan de Castro: It’s very early days but I think that those success stories are so important, one, to gain adoption, but I think more importantly to show impact right away. The example you described as almost the perfect story of what you described as underwriting of sending out a quote within the day of receiving the submission. So Jason, at the very beginning you talked about broker service. Is that a good representation of how would you see great broker service in the future?

Jason Howes: Yeah, definitely, I mean there are a few other areas to it as well. We touched on broker service and speed of underwriting, which is what you and Jonathan have just been talking through there. I think it improves relationships as well because you’re able to have more time, first of all, which then enables more fruitful discussions to occur. But we strongly believe that there is room for much more proactive discussions and you know what it’s like, right? Instead of going back and asking 20 questions, if you’re going back to actually say I’ve got an indicative price on this that we can talk through, then the experience is just better, it just feels better and it’s a much nicer interaction. So it helps relationships. I think it also makes us more competitive and allows us to be more flexible on the cover, which is probably an area we haven’t talked about so far. It’s important you take the data, you use it, you learn from it, you understand it better and that understanding then enables us as an insurer to what we hope will create a competitive edge, right? And now that takes some time, that doesn’t happen overnight, but it is definitely a key reason why we wanted to invest in some more of this transformational technology. But one final point which is really really important is claim service as well as part of this because it’s really powerful to have the data and to interact with our brokers at the front end as well. To have that data available for our claims team as well and that’s a key component of any insurance company. At Allianz, that moment of truth as we all call it when a client has a claim, there’s nothing more frustrating. So we just move to that customer lens for a second and I’ve been there for example on a personal lines policy when you get 1000 questions that you’ve already told people up front and there’s no joined-up experience for everybody, that makes that experience feel a lot better than it can be when it goes wrong. So this is a key component as well, getting that data to flow right across the value chain into the claims world as well. And I think that claims experience is then the one that our customers remember.

Juan de Castro: That is definitely the moment of truth. And can you say more about the flexibility of the cover? How does better data or more data enable that?

Jason Howes: The industry, Allianz included, have for a long time really set parameters of products, right on the SME digital side, it’s pretty understood and known that you have a package contract for a retailer or an office, et cetera. But in the commercial world, in the flow business as we call it, or midcorp world that we would all know, what we found is that actually there are opportunities to take the products and to really tailor and be a lot more specific to client needs. You can only do that with data and you can only do that with the ability to have much more informed discussions. So instead of actually vanilla offerings which the whole market has sort of lived with for many many years, what we’re seeing is the industry shift to a lot more focus around product specifics to customer needs. And again, this is a huge Allianz focus area where we want to give our brokers and our customers not covers that they’re not interested in or not useful for a client, but covers that actually really help them. And if we can talk more proactively about that because we understand the client needs linked to their sector et cetera, we think that that’s a big step forward. So that’s our thinking around this modularisation approach that is occurring across the industry but you can’t move to that approach unless you have data and structured data to help do that.

Juan de Castro: It is more about identifying exactly what covers a client needs, it’s less about personalising the wording because that is something that has been a nightmare in the past, having thousands of different wordings but it’s more about, what components of the policy a specific client actually needs, right?

Jason Howes: Yeah, correct. I mean ultimately, we all get a policy wording and a policy wording has to be the bedrock upon which the contract is formed. But there are much better ways. And again, feedback from lots and lots of broker research. We’ve done a lot of client research that actually the client wording that they receive from an insurer is actually quite difficult to work your way around if you’re not an insurance expert. And that’s something that’s been close to our hearts to try and tackle and solve. It’s also a regulatory focus area of the FCA and others. So yeah, it’s quite an interesting development again as far as the industry is concerned, but also where Allianz is focused on.

Juan de Castro: So bringing all this together, we’ve talked about efficiency, the experience of the underwriter, broker service, better relationships with brokers, and becoming more competitive. So as you’re thinking about the business case for the full transformation initiative, what are the main elements of value?

Jonathon Gray: I think like any insurer we want to write more business, more profitably, obviously quite difficult to do in a very competitive market with all the uncertainty that goes on. But I think if I just focus in on two areas probably around the growth and the efficiency side if we can, we’re using digital workflows and digital extraction to basically speed up the time it takes to get all of the data in the right place to our run drives in a prioritised fashion. In theory, we should be able to drive through our speed to market. The idea is obviously if we’re improving our customer service with our clients and our brokers, we should write more business and it also helps us get it right first time. Also, Jason has alluded that structured data opens up new opportunities. We will start to compile more data on our clients, our risks, and our brokers. So actually in the future, there’s no reason why we wouldn’t start identifying new growth opportunities and that’s obviously something that we’ll start to work towards. And then lastly, before I’ll let Jason come in, the efficiency point we talked about quite a bit around the manual activity underwriters go through. So a lot of time where there was a lot of manual effort just getting there to the right part of our business but also risks to the right part of our business. A lot of time is spent deciding whether should it be midcorp? Should it be digital? Who in the business has the best relationship? If you can really quicken that up through digital technologies, actually you’re just going to become more efficient as a business, which also then plays back into the speed to market. It’s almost like a circle, isn’t it? The more efficient you become and you feed it back in and the more business you write. But I don’t know if you wanted to pick up anything further from a transformation angle.

Jason Howes:  just that I’d echo what you’ve said and the fact that then kicks into better pricing, better profitability, all of the areas that any insurance company would have a huge focus on. So we wouldn’t be new as far as that’s concerned. But this is where we believe the digitalisation space provides some of the opportunities. And I just always come back to this point, and I and Jonathan have probably bored you to death on this already, but the data opportunities that exist from companies like yourselves really drive a different future and I can’t stress that enough. You’ll see Simon and Chris Valley, myself and the other directors of Allianz all talking about the investment in this space, whether it be underwriting data, whether it be data science, data AI, et cetera. Because if we get this right, I think as an industry, but also as Allianz, as an insurer, then there’s no question that it would be an exciting area for us all to benefit from as we move forward.

Juan de Castro: Jason, Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me in this episode. I find it fascinating all the transformation to driving, especially in a player as large as Allianz, which is obviously more challenging. And I think you are definitely one of the players in the industry with the clearest vision and moving at a real pace. So congratulations on that and thank you for joining me.

Jason Howes: Yeah, enjoyed it as well. Thanks Juan.

Jonathon Gray: Thanks very much, Juan.

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